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Rocking & Rolling

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Aug 22 at 5:33pm
Rule 42.2 prohibits rocking and pumping but 42.3 allows rocking 'to facilitate steering' and pumping to 'initiate surfing' (all amongst other things. If I'm sailing on a broad reach can I roll the boat to windward to steer down a wave while sheeting in to accommodate the change in apparent wind the resulting acceleration without breaking 42.2 or can I only pump the sail without rolling the boat?

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 07 Aug 22 at 5:35pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 22 at 5:36pm
Probably good to do some intensive reading from here:-
https://site-isaf.soticcloud.net/raceofficials/rule42/index.php



Edited by JimC - 07 Aug 22 at 5:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 22 at 3:27pm
Thanks Jim, I'm still not sure if simultaneously rolling to windward and sheeting in to promote surfing is prohibited or not. I think it is permitted as the interpretations for rule 42.2 'rocking' says "One roll that does not clearly propel the boat is permitted." and if I'm pumping as well it can't be clear whether the roll, the pump or the wave is what is propelling the boat. 
It may be that the Finn specific "Common Breaches By Class" would make it clearer but I'm getting a server error when I click the link.




Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Aug 22 at 3:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 22 at 3:45pm
Also in marginal conditions how long does the boat have to surf for for an attempt to count as successful or not?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 22 at 4:22pm
When surfing I think the roll's should be to facilitate changes of direction and the pump to promote surfing. The two might happen simultaneously, but they don't have to.

You can roll each time you change direction that's fine (as long as the changes in direction are required and not fabricated to allow more rolling).  
Pumping you can only do each time you surf. 

You can pump in isolation to any rolling, but it's to initiate panning or surf. 

Obviously, if you are changing direction, and also speeding up / slowing down, then there will be some 'trimming' of sails in that mix too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 22 at 8:11am
Thumbs Up The thing is, I sail/race at an informal club during the summer and don't want to gain an advantage in a dubious manner  Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 22 at 8:58am
Pumping, rocking, and sculling are all defined in rule 42.2 as repeated action.

A single pump or single roll is not 'pumping or 'rocking'. As long as it does not clearly propel the boat (in any direction) (Rule 42 Interpretations BASIC 4) it is permitted.

I can't see any reason why a combination of roll and single pump should be treated differently from each alone, except maybe, both together might actually 'clearly propel' the boat, when either alone might not do so clearly.

Bear in mind that a lot of rule 42 breaches are detected when boats are close together and one suddenly jumps ahead of another.

Really, advantageous manoeuvre of a boat by skilful use of legal kinetics should be applauded, not criticised.



Edited by Brass - 09 Aug 22 at 9:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 22 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Brass


Really, advantageous manoeuvre of a boat by skilful use of legal kinetics should be applauded, not criticised.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 22 at 11:23am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


Originally posted by Brass

Really, advantageous manoeuvre of a boat by skilful use of legal kinetics should be applauded, not criticised.

Big smile


Now all you have to do is sell that at your informal club, and you'll get a big hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 22 at 12:04pm
As I've said before, I think its a shame that subtle skilful kinetics are banned. However the unsubtle less skilful violent kinetics are rather more effective, and I'm not smart enough to think of a way to permit the first and ban the second.
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